Invocation of saints and Marian dogmas
- S18.1 Martyrs honoured from Era II; intercession of saints invoked in the liturgy from Era III; direct invocation later; no Era I–II evidence (medium)
- S18.2 Perpetual virginity attested from Era II (Protevangelium) and the consensus by Era III (Jerome) (medium–high)
- S18.3 Not patristic dogma: Augustine exempts Mary from actual sin only; the Assumption is an Era IV tradition (medium)
Two separate measures, shown side by side; neither is combined with the other (confidence-weighted, out of 4; counts show how many of this doctrine's 3 questions each rests on). This doctrine is second-order (tier weight 2). How scoring works · Scripture and tradition · Glossary · Every score with its citation
Closeness to Scripture
Closeness to the fathers
Charts: closeness to the fathers by question, and timeline
- c. 150 Protevangelium of James S18.2
- c. 156 Martyrdom of Polycarp S18.1
- c. 350 Cyril of Jerusalem S18.1
- c. 406 Jerome S18.2
- c. 406 Jerome S18.2
- c. 415 Augustine S18.3
- 1531 Apology of the AC Lutheran
- 1537 Smalcald Articles Lutheran
- 1563 Trent XXV Catholic
- 1646 Westminster Confession Presbyterian
S18 · Invocation of saints and Marian dogmas
Asking saints to pray; Immaculate Conception, Assumption.
Tier: Second-order (scoring weight 2). How the tiers were set: theological triage. Method: conventions. Traditions’ sources: confessional sources.
In short
Christians honoured martyrs from the 2nd century, and by the 4th century the liturgy asked God to hear prayers through the saints’ intercession. Scripture says the departed saints are alive but never shows anyone praying to them. Most fathers held that Mary stayed a virgin all her life, which Scripture neither proves nor rules out. The Catholic dogmas of Mary’s sinless conception (1854) and bodily assumption (1950) have no clear support before 750.
Plan
Questions: S18.1 invoking the saints and their intercession; S18.2 Mary’s perpetual virginity; S18.3 the Immaculate Conception and the bodily Assumption as dogmas. Mary as Θεοτόκος is part of F04 (Ephesus 431) and is held by all. Scripture: Heb 12:1; Rev 5:8; 6:9–10; 1 Tim 2:5; Matt 1:25; 12:46–50; Mark 6:3; Luke 1:28, 46–48; Gal 1:19. Fathers: Martyrdom of Polycarp 17; Cyril of Jerusalem, Mystagogical Catechesis 5.9; Protevangelium of James 9; Jerome, Against Helvidius; Augustine, On Nature and Grace 36.42.
Questions
- S18.1 Invoking the saints and their intercession
- S18.2 Mary’s perpetual virginity
- S18.3 Immaculate Conception and bodily Assumption as dogmas
Verdicts and trace
Weighed under the source-proximity principle: Scripture first, then the father eras I–IV.
S18.1 · Invoking the saints and their intercession
| Question | Verdict | Confidence | Reasoning | Key sources | Scripture (benchmark) |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| S18.1 | Martyrs honoured from Era II; intercession of saints invoked in the liturgy from Era III; direct invocation later; no Era I–II evidence | Medium | S18.1.1 · S18.1.3 weighing | martyrdom-of-polycarp-s18-s1 · cyril-of-jerusalem-s18-s1 | S18.1.4: medium |
S18.2 · Mary’s perpetual virginity
| Question | Verdict | Confidence | Reasoning | Key sources | Scripture (benchmark) |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| S18.2 | Perpetual virginity attested from Era II (Protevangelium) and the consensus by Era III (Jerome) | Med–high | S18.2.1 · S18.2.3 weighing | protevangelium-s18-s1 · jerome-s18-s1 · jerome-s18-s2 | S18.2.4: not a Scripture question |
S18.3 · Immaculate Conception and bodily Assumption as dogmas
| Question | Verdict | Confidence | Reasoning | Key sources | Scripture (benchmark) |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| S18.3 | Not patristic dogma: Augustine exempts Mary from actual sin only; the Assumption is an Era IV tradition | Medium | S18.3.1 · S18.3.3 weighing | augustine-s18-s1 | S18.3.4: medium |
Post-750 development
Which of this doctrine’s questions each tradition stays closest to, or departs from. Each row links to the tradition’s notes; exact scores and bases are in the reasoning.
| Tradition | Closest to the fathers on | Departs or sharpens on |
|---|---|---|
| Catholic | partly S18.1, S18.2 | S18.3 |
| Orthodox | S18.1, S18.2, partly S18.3 | — |
| Oriental Orthodox | S18.1, S18.2, partly S18.3 | — |
| Lutheran | S18.1, S18.2, S18.3 | partly S18.1 |
| Anglican | S18.3 | S18.1 |
| Presbyterian | S18.3 | S18.1 |
| Reformed Baptist | S18.3 | S18.1 |
| General Baptist | S18.3 | S18.1 |
| Anabaptist | S18.3 | S18.1 |
Overall verdict
S18.1: honouring the martyrs is Era II; liturgical intercession of saints Era III; invocation lacks Scripture and Era I–II support. S18.2: perpetual virginity is the patristic consensus by Era III, and Scripture does not settle it. S18.3: the Marian dogmas of 1854 and 1950 lack Scripture and patristic support.
Verification status
Trent XXV, AC XXI, Smalcald I.4 wording, the Coptic commemoration (secondary), Oriental Orthodox Dormition practice and Baptist/Anabaptist cells (by silence) are to verify. The Transitus literature was not checked.